ukconspiracy.myfastforum.org

admin

Taken from The Times Online. The Public Response:

A massive government database holding details of every phone call, e-mail and time spent on the internet by the public is being planned as part of the fight against crime and terrorism. Internet service providers (ISPs) and telecoms companies would hand over the records to the Home Office under plans put forward by officials.

Vox Populii Responds!

The Soviet Union had the biggest spy network in history, with 1 in 3 citizens spying for the state, part of what crushed their economy?

It will cost 10 times the estimate, won't work properly and the details of how to access it left by mistake when a leading govt official is visiting his mistress..

Bill Bird, Wallasey, UK

someone goes to an internet cafe, looks at bomb making online, noone sees them so no one knows who was looking, meanwhile work hard pay taxes and use a PC at home then watched 24/7! As ever the law is brought in to fight terror however, it would not be long before the council used it to check bins!

Richard de Gerber, Kingston upon Thames, UK

I think David Davies' point is the most salient. This Government is incapable of maintaining the security of what it already has, what on Earth makes them think that they can handle an upgrade!? What's the point anyway? The guilty won't be deported or jailed for more than ten mins...Guantanamo Bay?

James Cullup, oxford,

Don't blame the EU -- the directive does not argue for such a system. This is all the British.

Jamie, Washington DC, USA

Great! Just what we need! More £billions of taxpayer money to be wasted on senseless government databases which will not benefit anyone. Wonder how long before they loose the data disks or login codes for that one in post again......
Labour - get lost!! We have had enough of your stupidity!

Marek, London,

Disgusting invasion of privacy!

Dave, Porthcawl, UK

Sounds to me like the sort of thing the Soviets would have done, or any other modern day repressive dictatorship. How can we censure human rights violations in China, North Korea or former Soviet states when this is happening to us right here?
Freedom has been silently legislated away

Doug Harper, Bristol,

How long will it be before UK Gov't Plc decide that the value of this data exceeds the risks of prosecution from distributing it.

I expect it will be up for sale to ANYONE who wants it for the right price. Insurance companies, advertisers, banks, they will even sell you your own info back to you.

Dave Kinsley, Derby, UK

What about Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights? It's the Article on privacy. The first part of it says, "Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence."

Gordon Brown, if you're listening: RESPECT OUR HUMAN RIGHTS!

Simon, Brentwood, UK

Over taxed, over governed! We are certainly sleepwalking into a 'big brother' state versus ordinary citizen. We urgently need to slash public spending and update our democratic process so that majority governments like this one don't get control with barely 1 in 4 of the electorate.

Steve Marchant, Broadhempston, UK

I'm so speechless I can't think what to write.

Kevin, Leeds,

Well none of you have the right to complain. Those with the power to speak out and organise opposition to this type of thing have done nothing and sat quietly while:- Surveilance and car Number Plate Cameras were rolled out, ISP and phone Co's kept your info, ID cards are still coming, need I go on!

Dave Kinsley, Derby, UK

I remember the Home Office presentation on this. The ISPs pointed out to copy all this would effectively equal the storage of all ISPs in the country, and who was going to pay for the buildings, the hardware, the maintenance and the extra power stations to run it all?

Adrian Ramsey, London,

So does this mean that David Icke might not have been a paranoid nuitcase all along?

OH DEAR...

Brian Rainwash, Area K, EU

I'm made up with this news

Dr Evil
Secret Underground Bunker
Cheshire

mike, chessington,

Welcome to the EU , get used to it , this is merely the tip of the iceberg ...

Dan, Watford, Herts

sign up to hushmail, just google it, takes two minutes to sign up.

preddo53, leeds, UK

How can they justify this as a fight against terrorism? Terrorist will just use internet cafes to do their work and from there they sign into a hotmail account and make a draft of what they want someone to read. Then the person they want to read it signs in and looks at the draft, no email sent! So how will a data base like this catch terrorists? It won’t! It is just an excuse to put a database in place that can ultimately be used for anything they like!

Dave, Totton, UK

And I thought Brown and his government were merely incompetent, not paranoid as well. Of course those who plan terrorist acts will take note, as well as the necessary evasive action: so add stupid to incompetence and paranoia!

Country Bumpkin, Exeter, UK

Using Skype enables me to have a phone number in most countries in the World. I use an e-mail server in Germany. Using tunneling i can disguise my IP address. So that's me in the clear for the time being. But the Government will no doubt start preventing these companies from operating. Let's leav

Mark, Birmingham,

I don't know what everyone is worrying about there is not a chance that they will either get it to work or be able to pay for it.

They could spend a fraction of the costs on the police and other security services.

Although this would risk annoying the bad guys.

Alan, Verwood, UK

Robert Mugabe couldn't have thought of a better way to control the population. All dissidents of govt policy can be easily targeted and punished accordingly - children refused good schools, NHS treatment refused, random stop and search by the 'thought' police .. the whole idea is obscene !

Guy, London,

Interesting how tyranny always starts with a buzz word and a vague target. With us it is national security and terrorists. All dictatorships justify their diminution of human rights and freedoms in this way.Since 2005 we do not even have habeus corpus. What are we leaving for our children?

Peter Munro, Hailsham, East Sussex

I'm off to Zimbabwe. They elect their leaders and they do not spy on their citizens like this.

Dave, Slough,

I suggest liberally sprinkling the words bomb, target, infilitrated, security breach into all texts and emails.

Also encryption, snail mail, pay for everything in cash and leave your mobile phones at home.

cuffleyburgers, Lucca,

To Phil from Southend - I could not have said it better!

Lisa , London, UK

I thought the police had powers to access people's IT and phone info if they had arrested them. What is this? Guilty 'til proven innocent? Not only is this proposal an invasion of our civil liberties, I do not trust this government, or any other, to be able to look after the information properly.

Frances Roberson, Croydon,

Absolutely Diabolical!

Mark, Barcelona, Spain

"Nineteen Eighty Four" needs to be compulsory reading for all British schoolchildren.

Simon, London,

Makes you proud to be living in the Brown Dictatorship, such a step forward from the Blair Dictatorship!

Peter Eaves, nuneaton, uk

How can this be anything other than a breach of the human right to privacy. I don't think there is anyway for the government to defend it. If they bypass HRA 1998 someone will take them to the European Court of Himan Rights and they will be legally obliged to abandon it. Pointless exercise.

David, Welwyn Garden City, Hertfordshire

Its nonsense.

If the powers that be have lost data in the past, then how can they be expected to govern a database as large as this one would be?

They are not capable of it - nor is it workable. I noted the post about porn and spam.

Another stupid idea thought up by a load of airheads.

Annie, Bath, UK

Sponsored by Western Digital and your local CO2 emitter

Roger, Brisbane, Australia

I seem to hear the ghost of Joseph Stalin chuckling...Ha ha ha...ho ho ho... they thought my Empire had disintegrated and been historically discredited but now they are following precisely in my footsteps.... the weasels...

Gloria B. Devine, Taunton, UK

Not in the slightest bit scary; propaganda aimed at the masses! Most people have missed the point. With the sheer volume of traffic collected the likelihood of ANYONE having the capability of being able to sift through it meaningfully is zero. Only targetted surveillance or interception is feasible!

country boy, bournemouth, England

Your first par, which says where you got this from, says "under plans put forward by officials."

What officials would they be, please? Can you be more specific about where this plan is coming from, and how much evidence you have for its introduction?
Has any MP or minister backed this?

Sally, Yorkshire,

And they spent how much of tax payers money, to fight for their right not to have to declare their allowance scams?. Nice how Human Rights are non existent for us proles.

Beverley, Bilston, England

Don't rely on your politicians to fight this. The opposition won't stand in the way, because they intend to get that power for themselves someday.

This horrific invasion of your privacy demands civil disobedience on a massive scale. Boycott businesses that comply.

-jcr

John C. Randolph, Cupertino, California, USA

How can a democracy thrive with a massive apparatus of spying technology deployed against every act of political expression, private or public? That is what this means!

Who knows what data mining techniques will quietly be trawling through this database? - The Americans are also doing the same..

Hairy Dave, Paphos, Cyprus

Even the logistics of such an operation like this is unbelievable. All anyone would have to use encryption on their outgoing emails. Even I know how to write an encryption program. A stupid and unbelievable idea. So much for a democratic country! Labor has just lost my vote at the next election

Lynnsay Piper, Dundee, Scotland

Our colossal proliferation of CCTV cameras have not affected crime one whit. This monstrous project will have no effect other than to universalise identity theft once the data is (predictably and inevitably) leaked to criminals. The current batch of MPs should not only be deselected but prosecuted

Mikey, Bromley, Kent

I say this is one of few issues where a referendum is required. I don't trust my MP to say 'No' so I fear I will have to do it myself. How could anyone, anywhere, EVER think this is a good idea? I direct those people to 1984, it won't seem such a good idea any more.

Nick Burns, Nottingham,

Enough is enough. Labour, your time is over, this is the straw that will break the donkey's back. This borders on totalitarianism, and if you are stupid enough to even posit this idea then it shows you have totally lost the plot. You exist to serve the people, not to dominate them.

Simon, London, UK

Sorry, but this has been happening for years. In particular e-mails, SMS & mobile calls are logged & retained as a matter of course.

This is a case of the horse having bolted some years ago.

tim warren, touluse, france

Once again, we see the results of ignorant, well-meaning people. (The quotation "The path to Hell is paved with Good Intentions" comes to mind.) The innocent will be yet more vulnerable, and the guilty will have taken the steps necessary to protect themselves, and we will all pay for another mess.

Peter H, Guildford, Surrey

"Power corrupts" indeed..

The only answer is to take the power back again before it becomes absolute. Thank God we're still a democracy. Goodbye Labour, and goodbye EU, what repulsive custodians they've turned out to be.

I hope the Times forwards these remarks to the appropriate source.

Amanda, Bury St. Edmunds,

Year 12 of the Thousand Year Reich.
With this Communication database fascism and the freaky frankenstein fascism, you can just see HITLERS smiling face behind it all.

Sean Hamerton, York., England.

The East German Stasi could not have imagined this, or even the surveillance that we are now subjected to, in their wildest dreams.

Derek Carr, Bristol, UK

We aren't sleepwalking into a surveillance society,we are already there.
The labour "Socialist" government is looking more and more like the Dictatorships that devastated europe and the world.

James, Marbella, Espana

I hope they never copy it to a DVD and post it.

David, Cheshire,

Oh.... and back to Jack at the very beginning.... the US (and several other countries) have done this for years but just haven't been so stupid/honest as to go public on it. Others lauding encryption are just tagging themselves for closer scrutiny; get lost in the masses if you're that paranoid.

country boy, bournemouth, England

Great. That's the end of solicitor-client privileged communications. And wait until we start to get corrupt officials selling tapes to the tabloids or terrorists. Or jealous civil servants monitoring their other halves' texts to see what they get up to in their spare time. This has to stop NOW!

Lord Justin of Sloane, London, UK

What a load of rubbish this system already exists, heres a shock for you every text message and mobile phone call is recorded, any phone using mobile & radio can be hacked into and listened too.

Technology brings great freedom, but the costs to that freedom are that our privacy is denied.

Chris, Northern Territories of UK, ENGALAND

Naivete. The data already exists. GCHQ already monitor it and SIS already use it. What's new? - making the data legally accessible and submissible and, oh, the mega contracts for hard/software and administration. Make your own mind up as to why! But, give the project to Willie Walsh - we'll be safe.

Mike L, Chippenham, Wilts

The government is now the enemy.

Dr Nick Ashley, Huntingdon, England

"We have warned before that we are sleepwalking into a surveillance society."
The way I perceive the British society this has happened years ago. I know no other country where there is such an omnipresence of CCTV and other forms of surveillance.

Florian, Newcastle upon Tyne,

Whenever a story such as this appears in the media, the backlash against it is predictable. The simple fact is that the more information the authorities have, the more criminals they catch. I don't care what information they have about me, because I don't have anything to hide.

Lee McLennan, London, UK

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
attr. Benjamin Franklink

Given the Stasti like activities of local councils misusing the RIP Act, the disgusting TV license ads etc I think we can see where all this is going.

James, Ilford, United Kingdom

It is true that when someone doesn't understand something he will do odd and bizzarre things like this one. In a private and ethical company anyone proposing such thing would be demoted or dismissed. I believe it is also a crime to look into people's private lives.

Giancarlo, London, England

This is coming from the Police/Stasi. They want to harass anyone who objects to the PC, multiculti state, especially anyone white, middle-class, with a mind of their own. They already harass photographers and journalists [google 'undercover mosque']. They also want everyones' DNA.

michael clarke, kensington, london

Surely, this proves that it is time to dump the EU and all its workings. The EU Commission cannot even get their accounts audited FOR 13 YEARS!
Let us return to the the old Common Market principles with MINIMAL input from the BRUSSELS MAFIA
A REFERENDUM PLEASE

M. Cawdery, Portadown, Co. UK, EU

Oh as an AFTER THOUGHT. ANYONE CONTRIBUTING TO THE TIMES HYS WILL BE FIRST IN LINE FOR THE "DATABASE"

M. Cawdery, Portadown, Co. UK, EU

I always thought of this Country as the Motherland, sadly it seems to be turning into the FATHERLAND!!!!!!!
Tomorrow belongs to me, etc.....

Pete, St Albans, England

I think people would do well to remember that this became an EU directive because the British Government stamped its feet and demanded that these "security" concepts so close to the heart of labour be applied by the EU to Europe as a whole. There were many countires who saw this as overkill.

Tom, Munich, Germany

If this is the case, then I recommend that people start using encrypted mail immediately. (note to Times: article on this). 'Big Brother' government has no right to snoop on us in this way any more than to raid Post Office bags and read our letters.

Adrian Gilbert, Tonbridge,

i thougt 1984 was awork of fiction not an instruction manual,by the way texas jack gw has been reading youir e mails since 9-11 home land security and the patriot act have been used to destroy maqgnacata and the first amendment welcome to a new world order ten thousand people control the rest of us.

mike, west mids,

The threat to the general public from terrorism has been hyped by the media, which then naturally becomes the next Labour policy to try and win favour with the increasingly dissolusioned populace. We have excellent secruity forces already in place, this is nonsense, and then a laptop would be lost..

Kieran, Somerset, England

Anyone got any info on how one could either hack this database, spam/flame it, or better still, encrypt one's data so that it could not be read?? Could proxy-servers be used? I'm no IT expert, but I'm sure there are ways around this. Sorry, 'Nanny', I feel I will need to emigrate before too long....

Ash, Tunbridge Wells,

Will this be put to the vote or brought in via the back door as seems the norm nowadays. I am all for security and fighting terrorism, but this is too much. It's time the British public stood up and said ENOUGH!

Hamad Lone, London, England

When did the British public become the enemy; when did we all become guilty of a crime that justifies us being under a permanent state of surveillance? What the hell is going on in this country - what happened to the liberty that our fellow countrymen & women fought and died for...?

JC, Bournemouth, UK

Good point Allison. On top of letter censorship, they might also suggest all operators of public meeting places such as restaurants, bars and cafes should be required to keep records of everyone who comes to their establishment and who they spoke to.
This whole idea is obscene.
Patrick, London

Patrick Esson, London,

The public will wake up from the comfort zone and oppose this totalitarian civil liberties abuse any day now!.The terror is our government Brown and the gang have to GO NOW enough of your fear mindset conditioning.This new EU scheme clearly orchestrated by the one Euro government headed by Blair

Daniel Rampling, London, UK

Ha ha ha. I love this stuff.
If they passed this measure then all I would do is pick a book/paper/magazine, make sure the people I was contacting had the same, then use it to make a code. Eg the first word can be found on page 5, papargraph 6, 10 words in (5.6.10).
Break that Smile

Jim, Wrexham,

Emotional kneejerk rhetoric aside from a strategic point of view compiling a vast db creates a vulnerable juicy target and negates the sense of security it tries to engender. The internet was created so we DO NOT have centralised points of communication or data storage as a means of defence.

David Amerland, Cheadle, UK, Cheshire

WHO are "the officials" preparing this scheme? WHO are the actual individual people responsible for such an appalling step on the way to subjugation? Maybe they will explain themselves on this thread.....

John, Colchester,

There are no words to discribe what I think of this vile nu labour government, this is beyond Orwells most hideous imaginings, it has nothing to do with the the probing of terrorism and another step toward total authoritarian control of people by monitoring and making people comply by fear

Alex Lee, carshalton, United Kingdom

This will merely formalise in statute what the security services can already do de facto.

This demonstrates that the security services are primarily interested in blanket surveillance of the population rather than keeping an eye on 'terrorists'.

Daniel, London, UK

George Orwell. We are nearly there. Just a few more billions wasted of our own tax payers money. A few more gov cockups and bingo! Totalitarian State and Surveylance Society! Thanks NuNuLabor. As Gordon says "He's Listening" . . . . . . .Time to invest in invisible ink and get scribbling!

Lucas Tatek, Herts., uk

Perhaps someone wants to start an e-petition: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/
There are so many reasons to be against this plan - not just from a privacy perspective but from a practical one.
People who don't want their phone and email heard/read will simply encrypt that transmission. Its just pointless

David, London,

This excessive desire to to delve into the private lives of every citizen is a further example, if one was needed, of how out of touch labour has become with ordinary people. These inroads on our freedoms are reminiscent of the dark days of the Soviet Union and must be stopped.

Simon Marshland, Bath, UK

It's a late April fool, right?
Otherwise it's about time I moved back to Germany, where they are still very aware that knowledge is power.

freya, London,

The government have neither the skill nor the resources for this. Those that know what they're doing will get around it anyway, it's just another excuse to waste money we don't have. This government is an utter disaster, the EU is an unelected mess and I feel like emigrating. Truly depressing.

Ross, Ripon, UK

Who is Labour trying to convince! this is the same lot who lost millions of peoples data by transferring discs by mail!!...not registered by the way. Using terror and crime (Fear) is the same excuse the Soviets, used. Yes lets get this lot out, but let your local MP know this is not acceptable.

Mike Smith, Ashington, UK

Obviously their IT experts don't know much! It doesn't take much to setup an email server, and even make it secure so that only authorised people can access it. If I wanted to stop the government accessing emails between a few other people it would be quite easy. If I can, so can the terrorists!!

PD, Southampton,

Fools, don't you realise what is happening. Gordon can never win the next election, so his strategy is simple. Make sure Cameron can't win either. Come up with such a ridiculous suggestion that make the uk citizen run to the hills (Lib Dems) and Gordon destroys Cameron as well as himself.

Charles, Dewsbury, UK

I think this is a brilliant idea!
I'm really glad my taxes are being spent on something constructive and for the greater good of all.
I think this government and G Brown are the best we've ever had.
More civil servants I say, we can't have enough.
"Just in case, can't be too careful"

Pete, Limnos, Greece

The new gun laws have resulted in greater gun crime because criminals, naturally, take no notice of the law. Do not think for one moment that terrorists will be unable to get round this ridiculous notion. Look not to the Tories for salvation on this one either - if elected they'd love this law!

Bill Q, Derby,

Marxism is alive and well in Europe.
The fall of the Berlin Wall and communism was a ruse.

louis blanc, Liverpool, UK

Governments don't lack information, merely something intelligent to do with it.

Frank Upton, Solihull,

Great Britain? More like Soviet Britain! Wake up, everyone - Nu Labour's masterplan will come to fruition if we put up with this proposed surveillance - Orwell's '1984' will finally come true, somewhat later than he reckoned.

Gabrielle, London,

PC Labour - Stamping Down On Privacy

Ed, Harrogate, England

Thisgovernment continues to remove civil liberties in the name of terrorism, and it's all a fraud! It's not enough we have more speed cameras per person in this country than anywhere else in the world. Someone really has to stand up and say ENOUGH!!!!!

mario, london,

MP's are like sheep - they will vote for anything and this bill will be no different !!!! Just look at the embryo votes in Parliament yesterday !!!!

Ian Payne, WALSALL,

The only consolation to this asinine idea is, to me, the fact that there is no feasible way for them to gather every single e-mail and store it for 12 years or so.

If only because of the amount of Viagra, Pr0n, and scam mails.

Who woulda tunk there'd be a day for us to be glad of spam?

Michael Welsh, New York, NY

What a waste of our money.
Do you think they should also record all or phone calls and open all our post too? Why not record every pub conversation? or pillow talk?
Where will this paranoid waste of money end? will it realy prevent anything?

Tony Seaton, Southyampton , UU

Sledgehammer to crack a small nut I'd say.

Anyway, I thought the Security services already monitored all calls and emails for certain key words or names used, then recorded those!

Selective monitoring is Security based, general monitoring is for Political control and against public interest.

Sam Redman, London, UK

Haha . Never voted labour in my life and after 33 years of never having a Government that represented my thoughts and ideas I realise the time has come to leave this miserable island . Uk reaps what it has sown . I despair .

Benzo, Nr Chelmsford,

I agree with David,Norfolk.
What are they plotting to record..the actual conversations,e mail text and reply and the meanderings of teenage caht rooms?
Nonsense if so.
Once again kneejerk idiocy.

Geoff Mayor, Leamington Spa, UK

This is great news for Indian data processing out sourcing cos. Obviously the British government will go bankrupt paying high salaries in sterling to incompetent government employees so the only option left is to outsource. Indian entrepreneurs should gear up for this data processing bonanza.

bachu, tokyo, Japan

I'd comment... But we're being watched ! ! !

Shay D Kat, Dark Crater, Moon

Excellent, yet another reason to never vote for Labour ever again. Vote these dangerous monsters out of office before its too late. Terrorism is evil, but I think the current Labour party present more of a threat to the lives and freedoms of the British people than any terrorist!

John, Manchester,

Of course all MPs and Politicians will be exempt!!!
When the next Dictator comes along they will not even have to bother putting the infrastructure to control dissent in place. The general trait to be optimistic and not to consider unpleasant consequences of actions wins until we have thrashed all!

Esther Phillips, Leatherhead,

Never mind the ridiculuous cost the actual logistics of this would cost the public, anyone anywhere can, will and do use proxy servers, IP addresses and innumerable other techniques by which to remain untraceable; hacking of cell phones even today in order to remotely trigger a bomb is simple....

renee ballernini, Modena, Italy

New Labour read 1984 and thought it was a manifesto!

Dean, Southampton, England

The US already moniters every e-mail sent using its Echalon system, and do you know where they do this from?
Good old England, from their spy base Menwith Hill and other bases in the North of England.
We cannot even enter these bases to monitor what goes on,Echelon looks at all international e-mails

Jaya, Brighton,

Whoever said Brown was like Stalin was not joking.

As if ID cards are not a big enough waste of money, this is utterly ridiculous.

Goodbye UK.

hetterley, Chelski,

Thankfully, any public sector IT project as big as this would take about 25 years and a billion pounds to complete & wouldn't work when it was delivered - so no need to worry just yet...

Nosky, Westminster, UK

Security? In all the years the IRA killed and maimed we NEVER resorted to this kind of intrusion.

Easy way round this. Buy unregistered SIM's and change every 6 months. No more contract mobiles! Use SecWay to encrypt messenger traffic, PGP for mail encryption, infra red rimmed hat to blind CCTV

ian, London, UK

Old communism didn't die it only became New Labour! If Cameron wants to be voted in for sure, ditch big brother initiatives, ditch speed camera partnerships and make all of them redundant, bring back cops on the beat and make them accountable to the public whom they currently pretend to serve.

Jack, Glasgow, Scotland

Troy, "this crazy scheme undermines everything that a fair and democratic society stands for"

This isn't a democratic society; it's a feudal one, with a gloss of democracy. The English Civil War merely displaced the nobility in favour of the bourgoisie.

Phil Culmer, Southend on Sea,

"Any people that would give up liberty for a little temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin. By their actions terrorists work outside the law, so they will be unaffected. Accepting this is putting shackles onourselves. Bill of rights anyone?

Matthew S, London,

I've just about had enough of this government. Can't someone tell them that 1984 was supposed to be a novel, not a manual!

Ben Maughan, Wellington, UK

Encryption is useful, and should be used on all occasions, but traffic analysis is equally useful - they're interested in who's talking to whom, as well as what they're saying. Google "anonymous remailers".

Phil Culmer, Southend on Sea,

That's my line drawn in the sand, If this is ever placed on the statute books another family of taxpayers is off. I urge all of you to go to http://www.upmystreet.com/commons/l/, locate your member of parliament and vent your spleens. One never knows, democracy, will of the people and all that.

Paul Kelly, Hove, England

'welcome on board'
who says China is no human right, UK does the same things as well.

Lee, Beijing, China

As our civil service is still using 90's security techniques, this is not viable. It could be done but would require investment and professionals to implement and run it which would cost too much. We'd then probably privatize it by selling the contract to the japanese or french.

Matt, Antibes, France

If I recall correctly, the reason the EU is putting this forward is that the UK govt suggested it to them in the first place. That way the govt can pass the blame onto Brussels. This govt is even more slippery than you think.

Shane Smith, Brisbane, Australia

Bearing in mind that at least 95% of all email in circulation is spam, one wonders how "they" will ever be able to sift out anything relevant?

Plus, of course, most of the other observations above as well..

Bob H, Sonning,

Such a proposal is as impractical as it is illiberal. Anyone wanting to encrypt email securely can easily do so using free programs readily available on the internet. Anyone with a reason for doing so will prevent it being read, while the rest of us face the risk of data loss.

Maria, Leeds,

This is nothing whatsoever to do with terrorism and all to do with public control.

Any terrorist of genuine intent and capability will mask any messaging with code or use an alternative method.

Get government off our backs for goodness sake.

George Ball, Diss,

Sounds like something the Gestapo dreamed up.

Robert, Dallas, USA

Its all heading towards getting that microchip/mark on either the right hand or forehead that Revelation 13:16-18 and 14:9-11 speaks about.
Click on the mark of the beast (666).
If they can "chip" everyone then they can find us any moment of any day via global satellite positioning.

G.Gibson, Sydney, Australia

Just more evidence of the coming New World Order

TJ Poynton, Bristol,

“He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.”
Revelation 13:16-17
Sadly we're getting there...

Mario, milton keynes,

This is yet another example of this Country becomming a Dictatorship
They cannot be trusted witht exixting Dater Bases they are always losing THEM so what chance have we with this Daft idea
I would NOT trust them with anything

A Hammond, Egham, Surrey

A step too far, in the wrong direction. If Labour push ahead with this bill, they will legislate themselves out of government.

Khaled, London,

What a wonderful way to get people to start writing letters again! Or perhaps, they'll start censoring them next....

allison, Germany,

Why not just have us chipped and pinned and barcoded at birth. Our motors cars are to be fitted with satellite surveillance for road charging, id cards, bins chipped for refuse disposal, houses checked by satellite for improvements, OR we could chuck this lot out asap.

Pete, Barry, Wales

You got what you elected, and re-elected; twice.

David Masu, Zürich,

Legislation to help the poorest in the land, after the 10p tax fiasco, will take more than a year to enact. Legislation to spy on every person in the country comes in on a whim. Get this lot out, sooner rather than later.

David Leslie, Perth, Scotland

Note that the EU directive is being used as an excuse. If you read the article, the EU require records of phone calls and text messages to be kept - the recording of email and internet access is WHOLLY the idea of the Government. We need them out. NOW. I will never vote Labour again.

Eric Pritchard, Clevedon, UK

This has gone too far. The sooner we are rid of Premier Brown and his cronies the better. If the threat of terrorism is so great then look at immigration policy for the cause and the solution. People forget we had a far greater threat from the IRA yet we did not feel the need to spy on our people

essenhigh, cape town,

ID cards, 42 day detention, blanket CCTV coverage and now this.... Orwell warned us about this kind of government.

Much more of this and emigration looks attractive. In the meantime I guess we fill their system with spam and use the TOR system to retain privacy.

Ken MacLauchlan, Haslemere, UK

Use the TOR network. Use anonymous proxies. Use PGP for your emails

FIGHT BIG BROTHER

And lets get the HELL out of the EU

Jeremy Poynton, Frome, Somerset

How else could Gordon listen to ALL the people?!

David, Hereford,

The terrorists and organised crime have nothing to fear. They can use unregistered/ disposable mobile phones and internet cafes. Another waste of time and the taxpayers money.

C Byrne, Pinner, Middlesex

Alarmingly, this has originated as an EU Directive, and while our politicians continue our membership to keep big business happy, we can expect more of the same. With so much Spam around, presumably the database would in reality comprise the largest collection of porn and Viagra adverts in existence

DavidL, East Preston, England

A Home Office spokesman said the Bill was needed to reflect changes in communication that would “increasingly undermine our current capabilities to obtain communications data and use it to protect the public”.

By which they mean, "protect the powers that be".

Jeremy Poynton, Frome, Somerset

I Hope that in return for yet another abuse of our freedom, all emails, internet sites accessed , text messages etc by the politicians will be made publically available each day, for our perusal? surely those who seek to protect us have nothing to hide?

psst don't mention expenses!

Alan, london, england

This is another disgusting example of the death of democracy. Terrorists are being allowed to enter society because the ridiculous morons in the EU have allowed the use of the Human Rights Act to prevent us sending these wretched people back home where they belong.

Christine Constable, Norwich, England

Years ago the EU recommended that all email should use digital signatures and encryption to prevent Echelon ( a global network of computers intercepting all electronic communication.) from snooping.
Now is the time for all users to do just that. At the very least it would annoy the snoopers.

Bernard, Edinburgh, Scotland

I better not write a thoughtcrime here about what theyre proposing or i maybe sent for re-programming.

This totalitarian government ran by champagne socialist turncoats needs stopping.

ID cards were Mr. Howards idea while serving in Mr Majors governent, Mr Blair described them as a waste of money.

mikemilburn, Hull, HMP England

1st give us your guns,(we will protect you.)violent crime goes up anyway. 2nd we will install cameras and watch your every move.(It's for your protection). Crime continues to go up. 3rd let us read your e-mails and listen to your phone calls.(It's for the public good). 4th Orwell was right !

Dan Cooper, Carson City, Nevada, USA

Perhaps there is a way to establish networks of computers that will simply send billions and billions of randomly generated text messages to each other, to flood any such system with massive volumes of data?

Nick, Rotherham, UK

Is this Britain or East Germany?

John, London,

What happened to privacy and freedom? Why did we beat the Nazis in the first place. For THIS fascism? The US have it right - life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are not suggestions there, they are absolute rights. So is privacy. And freedom. Did Fascism win in Europe after all? Seems maybe.

David, Norfolk,

Outstanding. Yet another triumph of fantasy over reality. The government really do believe that a database of billions of texts, emails, and web browses, can be economically collected and safely stored.

This is an administrative impossibilty, and highly unsafe for the citizen.

Edward Bancroft, Ipswich, UK

This is a ridiculous approach to the problem. Governments are using the threat of terrorism to pass draconian laws and snoop on people without their consent. This is gross invasion of privacy and any government who supports this should be voted out of office.

John Taylor, London,

This is outrageous. I feel violated that all my phonecalls and text messages are being stored on a database somewhere. I can't believe this is already happening and people don't know about it. Its a complete invasion of our privacy and i feel uncomfortable knowing my every move is being recorded!

pom, london,

There is not an ounce of viability left in the land of politics, their propaganda speaks for itself.

D Stanley, Birmingham, England

To take just one example; How would such a database have saved Charles de Menezes' life? However, storage systems' salesmen must be salivating. Given the experience of the NHS and DSS, could such a system ever be made to work?

Bill Peter, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

If the UK is willing to go this far before an "incident" how far will they go after a big one??? I think in addition to this which I agree with they ought to show Islamic fundamentalists the back door out of the country - quickly - for their own safety.

Joe Ironsides, Minerstown, USA

Why not? There are more terrorists in the UK than in the rest of Europe combined. Give the police a chance to help with the problem.

Vic Cedar, Scottsdale, USA

I'd prefer the random terror from a nutty bomber than the organised terror of an ever more Fascist state.

Will this be included in any manifesto?
It's up to the press and media to help expose the real meaning behind this state sponsored paranoia.

Tom Taylor-Duxbury, Ludlow, UK

Hmm, time to leave, methinks. No doubt many others will feel the same. I wouldn't trust this lot with a stamp collection, let alone a national database.

Chris Parsons, Graffham, UK

Just shows how Stalinist our Labour government is. They shold be ashamed.

WR
Ledbury

William Edmund Rickarby, Ledbury,

You're joking aren't you? this is exactly the kind of thing Britain would do.

Barney, Leicester, UK

Nope- not about security. It's about subjugation. Forcing every grandmother to remove her shoes and trash her shampoo to board an airplane does nothing to stop terrorists. Likewise, reading everyone's mail isn't about security- it's about control.

"Security" is just an excuse..

Mike Best, Greensboro, NC, USA

Jack, Los Angeles - Now you know why the vast majority of the people hate Brown and his band of know-it-alls.

Brian Parsons, Lydney, Gloucestershire

A little nervous writing this less it is plucked from the records and I am tried as a heretic, but cant naughty big brother already pick us up any time they like.?
A mega database may speed up the trap is all. Maybe they should back it up this time...

alex, Roussilon, France

Time to invest in an encryption programme methinks. This would be a total abuse of my privacy. More evidence of the rise of the neo-Nazi state.

Stephen, St. Ives, England

Under the same principle all the Post Office would open all your letters and scan them into a database just in case you were discussing anything untoward.

Also, the government would have access to who wrote this message!

Truly shocking.

Charlie, Ramsey,

Will Be hard for them to monitor unregistered pay as you go sim cards also people will just start texting bogus and coded messages as diversions

Neil, London,

Jack,

You don't know the half of it. We've got the largest amount of surveillance cameras watching us, the largest amount of speed cameras catching us... we're encournaged to rat on our neibours, subject to arrest without charge.. the list is endless and one of the reasons so many people emigrate

Raymon, London,

As so often with the EU and this Government the solution is worse than the problem. As 100% security is impossible can someone explain how close to 100% this plan would bring us. My guess is nowhere near as it might catch perpetrators rather discourage them. I prefer NO big brother,.

Nick Guyatt, Gosseldange, Luxembourg

Oh, and you better beware all ye who comment on one of these blogs.

You are being watched!

Wullie, Luss, Scotland

Dear UK gov't:

If you have anywhere near as much trouble building this monstrosity as you have with recent NHS IT projects, you could always outsource it:

http://www.rollingstone.com/polit...797485/chinas_allseeing_eye/print

Nice company you're keeping.

Martin, Singapore, Singapore

I'm sure Charles de Menezes' family will be glad to hear that Britain will become safer.

I also agree with Pete from Wolverhampton; end all emails "Insha'Allah".

Bill Peter, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

It may be called the EU - but it's changing quickly into the EUSSR. But even in Soviet Russia they didn't have the facility for the kind of surveillance and abuse of personal freedoms the EUSSR has planned.

Donna Walker, Effingham, England

Hah hah - I intend to get made redundant in the next round of credit crunch - get retrained as a plumber and move to mainland Europe where theres a shortage and live in the sun.

Inflation through the roof. Petrol up nearly 30% on last year. Proposed mandatory medication through water - why not?

James, Glasgow,

As long as governments react to the terrorists and change our way of life - the terrorist have won.

Stop concentrating on defence and start putting serious resources on attack.

Place the onus and responsibility clearly on the religious leadership of islam to disavow these individuals.

Jonathan Mills, Brighton,

Iy is very, VERY clear that the longevity of the current government has permitted a large cadre of civil servants to feel unassailable and to become increasingingly detached from the world we all live in. Civil servants should be on a one-off, fixed term contract of three years to avoid this rot.

Ed, Cardiff,

How much is it going to cost us?

Kate, Portsmouth, UK

Goodness, just imagine if the CIA were able to penetrate or worse still, were given access to this proposed database, there would be people renditioned to Guatanamo or some other 'out-of-the-way place for interrogation about some text message that questioned the sanity of the US Admin or Brit Govt!

Rex, Kathmandu, Nepal

We used to be innocent until proven guilty. Under this authoritarian Labour government we are all being treated as guilty until proven innocent.

The double outrage is that taxpayers are being be made to pay for this Orwellian nightmare.

Ian, London, UK

Truly Orwellian.

Mandatory DNA data-base, ID cards, fingerprints, face recognition software, surveilance cameras, surveilance microphones, the recording of every phone call / e-mail / text, the centralisation of tax / social security / property ownership / medical records

New Labour Freedom!

Wullie, Luss, Scotland

No the whole of Europe is not doing this and civil liberties protections are now taken more seriously in many EU states than in the UK. For all of the talk about how terrible America is these days at least there are more solid individual liberty protections. I would never live in the UK again.

Jamie, Washington DC, USA

It's more than a new Magna Carta that we need, we need a written constitution and a bill of rights.

Paul, Coventry,

This proposal is the final insult. If I lived in Europe - I would leave.

richard, bangkok,

When you're more afraid of the police and government than the criminals, it's time to fly the coop. When I began discussing "Police State UK" back in the mid '90's, everyone said I was paranoid. What do you think now? Settled on your emigration destination yet?

Andrew Milner, Karuizawa, Japan

Really? They have more CCTV cameras videotaping public spaces in London than anywhere in the world.

Why would this shock you?

johnny, Los Angeles,

Unfortunately so. Since Labour got in to power we've had a succession of Laws passed each designed to further erode our privacy and democracy.

www.no2id.net

www.writetothem.com

M Merrick, Swanley, UK

Get out while you can.

Pu Li, Guangxi, PRC

Gives one pause to wonder; who's to gain financially given the inevitable need for warehousing and Disaster Recovery of all these terabytes of data?

Has anyone in authority at the Home Office plans to retire to the private sector? Happens here all the time.

Larry, Middletown,

If true, this is totally outrageous. If we cannot block this in Europe this is sufficient reason to leave the EU. Jack, you obviously haven't been in the UK for some time. Sadly this is all too common here. We are evolving into an authoritarian state.

Ian Burgess, Bristol,

are you they mental, this crazy scheme undermines everything that a fair and democratic society stands for.

Do not use terrorism as an excuse four punitive combative measures such as this that are targeted at 99% of law abiding citizens. If this gets up it will have global ramifications for all.

Troy , Traralgon, Australia

Tell me about it and i live in the middle of it

Nicola Clubb, bournemouth,

"but Britain is one of the LAST places i would expect to have this kind of big brother state.... "

Jack, are you kidding? Britain is the model 'Nanny State'. London has the highest concentration of surveillance cameras aimed at the general public.

Gopal, Houston, USA

That's horrible, where are we going with this, I never thought this could be possible...

Joaquim, Paris, France

I'm not afraid of terrorists - but, the government I do find frightening. The data commisioner warns that we are sleep walking into a surveillance society - ordinary people are the victims: if there are terrorists, this won't stop them. Somebody stop the government creeps!

James, Tunbridge Wells, UK

This already exists.

Dave, dallas, USA

But who says I or you need/want to feel safe? Who asked me this question in the fist place? Did I miss something in my email or letterbox? This cannot be put be put into practice, and you [this paper] should follow the trail like a bloodhound.

susan rattray, murwillumbah, australia

absolutely petrifying. Sounds like we need a new Magna Carta.

Damien, Hornsey, UK

The excessive amount of data collected would likely make such a system unworkable in achieving whatever goals that it was intended to achieve...

Nevertheless, I agree that this proposal is very scary.

Cheers.

Rob Miller, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

What if the terrorists just send each other regular 2nd class letters to plot their next crime?

David, York,

Why why why?

Keeping tabs on everyone's private business because the authorities can't keep control over the minority who abuse the system?

It's like some sort of long-running sick joke.

Eleanor, Yorkshire,

It would have been helpful if the article had put this in context. If it's a Brussels directoive, does this mean the whole of Europe is doing it too? And either way, what does the US do now?

philip, london, UK

It would have been helpful if the article had put this in context. If it's a Brussels directoive, does this mean the whole of Europe is doing it too? And either way, what does the US do now?

philip evans, london, UK

So every time one of you guys or gals creates a new email addy, someone is going to forward it to a database? Given the any arbitrary government's dismal record for security of such things, how long will it take for the spammers to point their botnets and go to work?

Tom, USA,

The world is going mad and we are letting these bureaucrats do it because we are too complacent. Strange how all the public is now being regarded as the enemy - now we are all the 'foe' including those that are advocating this. Or cannot they see that? Paranoia and ignorance rules: freedom loses.

Bill, Perth, Australia

'What is going on' Jack is called a Labour Government which since 1997 have erected the most CCTV camera's in the world and is hell bent on control of the people in any fashion available. However the Country is waking up and they will be thrown out (possibly for ever) at the next election.

Roger, Surrey,

The government and ministers have proven that they cannot be trusted with our private information, leave it with the private companies who actually have to abide by the law, unlike the ministers who can get away with almost anything!

J Geering, Norwich, UK

Yes its the death of Britain, and especially that of free speech.

They will kill each and every site that speaks out against immigration, or points out another death caused by Nu Labour's immigration invasion policy.

This is not freedom, its BIG BROTHER.

Chris, Ely, England

The malevolence by far outweighs any benevolence in such a sinister scheme.

I will vote for the politics that opposes such "totally intrusive" nonsense.

Brown, you're GONE!

Billy Blobbs, London,

this is not for security only its to use information to twist peoples arm to get information

In russian they use tax fraud to 'get' people who dare to have an opinion

david, bexleyheath,

What a seriously pointless exercise if indeed security is the reason.
Anyone now wishing to communicate about acts of terrorism will revert to cheap and readily available radio transmissions with a scrambler attached. Simple, effective and secret.

Ashley Balls, Auckland, New Zealand

Utter madness! Will the Tories have the guts to fight it the way they are opposing 42 day detention. Secretly, I suspect they also love the Big Brother state. It hasn't done George Bush any good. The British government is completely incompetent in this area and will be doing the criminals work.

oldasiahand, Guildford, UK

Looks like our government have had 1984 read to them a la Jackanory (I doubt that they are intelligent enough to read it themselves) and didn't realise that it's fiction.

There's an easy way to wreck this totalitarian idea though-use words like Ak47, bomb explosive etc. in ordinary conversations.

Pete, wolverhampton,

Hey, we had twenty-four more years than Orwell predicted... I'd say that's pretty good.

Andy, Seattle, USA

Your telling us. Its quite a shock, really.

Monty, Bristol, England

WOW. What is the deal britain?
I know its for security, but Britain is one of the LAST places i would expect to have this kind of big brother state....

Very scary

jack, Los Angeles, USA

DarrenPollard · Joined: 04 Jun 2008 Posts: 5 Location: Birmingham - England

Good thread mate. However, this guy needs to wake-up: